Talk:Hope Pym
Nadia Pym Should Nadia Pym be considered an alternate version of Hope? While she's Janet's stepdaughter as opposed to her daughter, her name does translate to Hope. Alkonium (talk) 13:30, May 14, 2016 (UTC) :Yes, she's definetely a Hope van Dyne / Pym counterpart. --The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 17:19, May 14, 2016 (UTC) ::Nadia Pym was created as a comic book counterpart to Hope van Dyne after the release of the Ant-Man film, but with both characters having various different adaptations in other media, it would make the navigation of the characters easier and less convoluted if they were two separate pages; one page for Nadia Pym, and another page for Hope van Dyne / Hope Pym. Red_Shogun 15:59, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::In any case, shouldn't the MC2 version of Hope be the main version on the page? She's the original and it's named for her.Alkonium (talk) 16:02, July 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::I think the MC2 version of Hope should be an alternate version of Nadia, while Hope van Dyne's page has the MCU version as the main one. Red_Shogun 16:04, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::::As a side note to my previous statements, both Hope van Dyne and Nadia Pym have been adapted as different incarnations in the same video game (LEGO Marvel Super Heroes 2), thus making them separate individuals from each other to a normal audience. Red_Shogun 16:17, July 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::::We decided to make Nadia the main version because she's much more relevant than her MC2 counterpart. It's unorthodox but convenient for people not familiar with the character. --The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 16:54, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::::::Just for clarification, does that mean that Nadia Pym / Nadia van Dyne will have a separate page from Hope van Dyne / Hope Pym? Red_Shogun 20:28, July 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::Both Nadia and Hope have been added to Future Fight (with Hope ironically being a costume for their mother Janet), how long will it be until the page protection is lifted so I can add both Earth-TRN012 versions to the page? And to contribute to the ongoing discussion, they've been adapted into Future Fight and LEGO as different characters, but LEGO Marvel Superheroes 2 is all about the Multiverse, while Future Fight is notorious for introducing pre-existing characters as costumes for established ones (Deathlok, Cap, Widow, Iron Man, Red Hulk and now Wasp are just some of them). That's why Agent Carter and Captain Carter both exist in the LEGO reality, despite being the same person. I'd say it's a similar case to Spider-Gwen and Time-Displaced Jean Grey, as they're technically the same character as the "main self" but have gotten enough alternates of their own to require differentiation. Keep all of Nadia's alternates on Hope's page (keeping Hope as the main one since Red Queen came before Wasp), but create a separate disambiguation for Nadia with Hope under the "related" header, again like we do with Spider-Gwen and Teen Jean. Edward Zachary Sunrose (talk) 21:52, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::::::::That works for me. Can't wait to see the finished product for the pages. Red_Shogun 23:32, July 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::::Thought I had replied here, but I guess not. I'm opposed to multiple disambiguation pages for a single character. I believe Gwen's should all be merged and I see no compelling reason why "Hope" should be split. -- Annabell (talk) 18:28, August 6, 2018 (UTC) :::::::::::I'm also replying here after the message wall. The Gwen Stacy page is for Gwen Stacy, who also uses the alias of Spider-Gwen, while the Spider-Gwen page is to categorize all of Gwen Stacy's "Spider-Gwen" named characters to make the navigation of Spider-Gwen versus Gwen Stacy easier to decipher between the two. As Hope and Nadia aren't the same character it can be confusing, but because they are different characters entirely (just with the same source of inspiration between the comics and the MCU copying each other), it does seem reasonable for all those alternates inspired by Red Queen to be on Hope Pym's page, while Nadia gets her own page for navigational purposes of that character being separate from Hope. Red_Shogun 18:41, August 6, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::::::They aren't different characters though, they're simply alternate reality iterations of the same character. Nadia literally means Hope, it's simply a re-imagining of a character in a different universe, like how Venom-1610 isn't quite Venom-616 isn't quite Venom-65, etc. (P.S. Gwen Stacy never actually uses the aliases Spider-Gwen nor Gwenom, they're simply editorial distinctions that again are unnecessarily complicating her disambiguation.) -- Annabell (talk) 18:45, August 6, 2018 (UTC) :::::::::::::They are extremely similar as Nadia literally means Hope, both are daughters of Hank Pym, and both hold up the Wasp mantle. Due to these similarities Nadia and her alternates are listed on Hope Pym's page, but due to there simultaneous (yet, inconvenient) appearances as different characters in video games such as LEGO Marvel Super Heroes 2 and Marvel Future Fight, it only seems reasonably to me for navigating between their similarities as stated above, and their differences as separate characters in certain media.Red_Shogun 18:48, August 6, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::::::::An inconsistent video game isn't a valid reason for an inconsistent Wikia policy. -- Annabell (talk) 18:52, August 6, 2018 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Okay, here's my new proposal. No Nadia page. But Nadia shouldn't be listed as the main character on Hope Pym's page. Hope Pym debuted first as Red Queen, than she was the inspiration for Hope van Dyne in the MCU, and later, van Dyne was the inspiration for Nadia in the comics. Seeing the unorthodox consistences in the video game simultaneous appearances, Hope and Nadia will be counterparts of one another, but must remain as alternate counterparts of Hope Pym/Red Queen who should be the main character on the page as she debuted first and due to their distinct similarities. Only if Nadia and Hope are seen as distinct characters in the comics or an accurate interpretation in film or television shows, than will Nadia get her own page. Right now, I guess it is unnecessary.Red_Shogun 18:59, August 6, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Spider-Gwen does actually become her canonical alias in the final arc of her comic (much to her initial chagrin). Though it'll presumably be changed to Ghost Spider in her new ongoing for unknown reasons. In any case, this discussion is about Hope/Nadia. And looking at the actual disambiguation page, we have 3 versions of Nadia Van Dyne, 5 of Hope Van Dyne, 2 of Hope Pym and one Unnamed Daughter of Hank and Janet. Since the most counterparts are named Hope Van Dyne and the most notable counterpart to date is the MCU version, who is also named Hope Van Dyne, I suggest the disambiguation page is not named Hope Pym, Nadia Van Dyne or Nadia Pym, but Hope Van Dyne. Edward Zachary Sunrose (talk) 21:39, August 15, 2018 (UTC) Hope Van Dyne & Nadia Van Dyne Nadia means Hope, Nadia and Hope are both daughters of Hank Pym and a lover (either Janet Van Dyne or Maria Trovaya), both use the alias of Wasp and are the prominent figures as Wasp in their native realities (Earth-199999 for Hope and Earth-616 for Nadia). There are 5 versions of Hope Van Dyne / Pym, 3 versions of Nadia Van Dyne, 2 versions of Hope Pym (one is Red Queen, the other being more accurate to Hope Van Dyne / Wasp), and only 1 unnamed daughter of Hank and Janet called Wasp. The policy of disambiguation pages is to optimize the user landing page to give them the right character they are looking for off the bat based on which one is the most prominent. Due to Hope and Nadia's similarities, the database has put them on the same landing page of Hope Pym (a conglomerate of Hope Van Dyne / Hope Pym / Nadia Van Dyne / Nadia Pym). This means that if a user is looking for Nadia Van Dyne, they must go on to Hope Pym's page where they first find Red Queen and then find a messy list of Hopes and Nadias which makes navigation extremely confusing. To optimize the navigation between the two extremely similar characters, Hope Van Dyne should be the landing page for the MCU character (as she is most prominently using that name) and would be the character most people are looking for, thus Hope Van Dyne would consist of all alternates based on the MCU character for the shows (Hope Pym / Wasp) and the video games. Hope Pym would simply be a redirect to Hope Van Dyne due to the Red Queen version being the character's inspiration, while Red Queen herself and the unnamed Wasp would be listed as "Others" on the Hope Van Dyne page. The "Related" header on Hope Van Dyne would link to the Nadia Van Dyne disambiguation page due to their similarities. Nadia Van Dyne would be her own landing page for those looking for that character with her Earth-616 version being the main character on that disambiguation while that page associates with all the alternates of Nadia Van Dyne with the "Related" header linking back to the Hope Van Dyne disambiguation page. Other names such as Nadia Pym can be a redirect to Nadia Van Dyne like how Hope Pym redirects to Hope Van Dyne beforehand. In a rough conclusion, the characters of Hope Van Dyne and Nadia Van Dyne have both gotten their own fair amount of alternates based on their prominently used variant that they deserve their own disambiguation pages to differentiate between the two, while still acknowledging their profound similarities to one another. Main Character Shouldn't Hope Pym (Earth-982) be listed as the main character on the page, as she was the first one to appear? HBK123 (talk) 16:15, January 24, 2020 (UTC) :Main Character's aren't necessarily always the character who appeared first, for example (though said example might be an entirely different case) Laura Kinney (Earth-616) appeared after X23 (Earth-11052) but she's listed as the main version. Whatever the case, I don't particularly mind who is listed as the main version, but if you wanted you could insert a portal box. --1137a (talk) 18:24, January 24, 2020 (UTC)